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Post by Jason R. Chin on Mar 6, 2007 12:28:23 GMT -5
Well, since Hendo opened the nerd door...
Yeah, Marvel... WTF?!
Man, that was awful. I read the random issue of the entire Civil War thing. It actually destroyed the entire line of comics. I was buying Fantastic Four for years (since they wisely brought Waid in) and then BAM! They ruin it.
I read the finale of the Civil War and I realized that they ruined both Captain America and Iron Man.
And even beyond bad comics, it's incredibly bad satire/reflection... so painfully obvious and transparent. Ugh.
Ugh.
Moral of the Civil War Series: Do What The Goverment Says.
Also,
The Initiative = Justice League Embassies
with the same predictable future.
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 12:34:26 GMT -5
Jason, as scary as this sounds, I think you and I are getting more alike the older we get.
I bought most of the Civil War series. Because I'm an idiot. That final issue, with frikkin' IRON MAN and his facists winning? And Cap'n America (my favorite Marvel hero) getting led away in chains?
BOOOOOOOOO!
The only Marvel comics I'm looking forward to are the Ultimate series, the Punisher, and the upcoming story arc with a pissed-off Hulk returning to Earth to kick some Iron-Man butt.
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 12:35:01 GMT -5
Also,
Tony Stark, head of S.H.I.E.L.D.? WTF?
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 12:44:53 GMT -5
Jesus, Jason... you really got me going now...
Who the f does Marvel think they're selling comic books to? Most of their target audience is in the "invasion of Iraq bad; government corrupt" mindframe. So to sell us a series where it ends with us being told a facist government approach is CORRECT, and that something like 90% of that universe's population go along with it...
I think they're TRYING to go bankrupt.
And Tony Stark, the biggest d*ckhead in the Marvel Universe, a former alcoholic, a control freak, a man who has lied so many times to the public about whether or not he's Iron Man, a dude who's more Machiavellian to his friends than Batman could ever DREAM of being... in short, a complete prick... is RIGHT?
God, I hate Marvel so much right now.
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Post by Jason R. Chin on Mar 6, 2007 12:45:41 GMT -5
that was a What If? I think... and did you ever read the very first episode of Nick Fury:Agent of SHIELD? Stark was a big part of that.
According to the previews, I can look forward to NOT buying the Fantastic Four for another year or two. Sigh. Poor Reed.
Oh! and If REED is so smart he can foresee the entire Civil War (ala Ozymandias in Watchmen) wouldn't The Smartest Man On The Entire MOTHERFRAKING PLANET do something preventative?!
Oy.
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 12:47:00 GMT -5
nope, Jason... in the new continuity, Nick Fury is still missing, and Tony Stark is the new head of S.H.I.E.L.D. Dum Dum Dugan tried to resign, but the President refused his resignation so he can "spy" on Tony.
I sh*t you not.
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Post by dan on Mar 6, 2007 12:53:04 GMT -5
I defected permanently to other publishers 10 years ago.
That said, I still love me the occasional run. Joss Whedon's Astonishing X-Men is pretty dope. I just don't buy into any series because it's "there", no matter how much I love the character. I like a character with an arc and a history that I can REMEMBER. He can still have alternate universe experiences or whatever, but characters like Spiderman and Batman have become impossible for me to seek out anymore because there's too many goddamn story arcs. Like say Alan Moore finally tells Joker's origin in Killing Joke, and then ten other artists tell it their way, and you just have to live with it being "the timeline in that artists' universe" or whatever. I don't buy that shit. If you want to rewrite a character's defining moment over and over, you need your own goddamn character.
Sorry, this probably makes fans of the Ultimate series think I'm retarded, but this is how I like mah books.
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Post by Jason R. Chin on Mar 6, 2007 12:57:57 GMT -5
Dan,
DC has heard you/us... They just restarted their entire line and the Superman and Batman lines are designed to be standalones.. f continuity.
PAul Dini, from the Animated Series, is doing a comic series (only one issue each story) that is amazing...
Also, nice way to capitialize on what will be a giant thing for Marvel with SpiderMan 3. The whole thing is predicated on his secret identity and you just took that away! You dummies! So, people who might randomly pick up a Spidertitle will be completely confused and upset. BAH!
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 13:05:16 GMT -5
Dan, I hear ya. As a big Batman fan for years (since DC decided that one big part of his arc is that Bruce Wayne is the disguise and Batman is the real character), I've been pretty disappointed in their handling of continuity. R'as al Ghul... don't get me started. Catwoman... is she a hero? A villian? Whose writing her now? What day is it? The Riddler... he's smart enough to be Batman's competition in crime-solving now? Give me a BREAK.
However, one caveat is the Joker. Even in Moore's brilliant "The Killing Joke," it's clear that the memories the Joker's having MAY NOT BE REAL... he even says that some days he remembers it differently.
In other words, he's so fractured that even HE doesn't remember who he used to be before he was the Joker. Which makes it irrelevant. There doesn't need to be a pre-Joker. There's only the madness that is in front of you right NOW.
That being said, DC has been trying hard the last few years to pull it's lines into the continuity created in "The Killing Joke" and "Kingdom Come".
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 13:09:42 GMT -5
Which all leads me back to my problems with Marvel.
DC takes it's continuity (and the problems within it) VERY seriously. That's why every decade or so, they shake it all out, starting with the ground-breaking "Crisis on Infinite Earths." 50 some odd years of comic books and the buying/taking over of so many different lines (remember, Captain Marvel, Elongated Man, Captain Atom, Blue Beetle and the Question were not originally DC comic books), as well as Golden Age and Silver Age counterparts all co-existing... you've got a mess on your hands.
So DC keeps track of it. They actually hire people to do that.
Marvel... The X books alone are a continuity molly-bang. I don't even know if Prof. X is himself or his dead baby twin sister or if he can walk again or if he's banging Lillandra or if they're hanging in a different universe or if they're in Asgard again or...
Seriously... f the X books and f Marvel.
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Post by dan on Mar 6, 2007 13:29:04 GMT -5
Yea, as a fan I can appreciate "shaking things out", and it's definitely more cruel to go the Marvel route and make people sift through the continuity. That said, I still digest Marvel stuff far easier. I love team-based heroes, and the Justice League was just never my thing. Marvel perfected the team of heroes concept in my eyes.
Poor DC, I want to like them, but I'm just not interested. Other than Moore, Miller, and Kirby's DC "phases" I don't ever pick the stuff up.
Give me some other Moore, Kirkman, or Ellis stuff please.
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 13:32:25 GMT -5
Wildstorm's your ticket, then. That and America's Best.
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Post by dan on Mar 6, 2007 13:33:40 GMT -5
All I hear is pops and buzzes. Are those publishers or DC titles that you're begging me to try, because you and DC like to kiss?
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Post by Hendo the Showman on Mar 6, 2007 13:57:54 GMT -5
No, with America's Best you get Tom Strong, Promethea and a bunch of other Alan Moore created characters.
Wildstorm gives you "Planetary," which might be my favortite book out there. It's wrapping up now, but it's probably the best work Ellis has ever done.
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Post by dan on Mar 6, 2007 13:58:57 GMT -5
Ah, okay, yeah I've got all the Tom Strong trade paperbacks. I just forgot who released them.
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